guerre angleterre france

7 Eustache Deschamps, Œuvres complètes, éd. All rights reserved. In brief, he brings back security to a land from which it has long been absent. Keen, H. M., Giry-Deloison, C., & Contamine, P. If the soldier manages to travel three leagues in a day, he thinks he has done very well. Bouvet was against the provision of substitutes and ruled that the soldier should receive no reward because he had done his employer a disservice58. Tell us about a web 11-13 (VI, iii). Desertion, Bouvet wrote, might lead to execution; the guilty soldier should at least be demoted to service on foot59. The immediate aim of this was the achievement of a greater level of efficiency and discipline within the army. 426-427; Le Jouvencel, t. II, p. 173. It was not merely a question of whether the excesses of the soldiery could be resisted; the matter of whether they should be was also being debated. Instead, our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon. KEEN, H. Maurice (dir.) It is in this sense, I think, that we have to understand Jean de Bueil’s statement that ‘gens d’armes… sont faiz pour tourmenter le monde’11, the implication being that, seen in a theological view, such torment is good, even desirable. To these vital qualities Jean de Bueil was to add another: that of having endured the sufferings and hardships of war which, in his view, was not an occupation for the soft or those who liked their pleasures too much54. Unable to add item to List. That of Jean de Bueil certainly fell into that category: ‘Ayde-toy, Dieu te aidera’, he wrote, citing the saying of the day15. MARC View. It was surely service of this kind which Jean de Bueil had in mind when praising the efforts of those who chose to work for their king and, by extension, for their country. 17 L’Arbre des Batailles, p. 174; Tree of Battles, p. 189. There should exist another view of the soldier, an ideal view perhaps, the creation of the lawyer and the intellectual, who present us with a vision of the soldier as a man of flesh and blood, with a soul to save, who, in spite of the frightening aspect which he was all too often given, was none the less worthy of the respect, even the honour, due to those who defend the common interest through service to the king. 36 English suits before the Parlement of Paris 1420-1436, ed. England 1471-1534, Oxford, 1988, p. 34. - Military organisation in Lancastrian Normandy, 1420-1450», Patronage, Pedigree and Power in Later Medieval England., ed. 23The soldier, then, is now coming to be regarded increasingly as a public officer, with an obligation towards his employer, the king, and beyond him to a wider society56. 302-305. This point should not be pressed too far, but the public good, that political concept to which a host of fourteenth-and fifteenth-century writers, both inside and outside France, refer, is one which had been inherited from the classical world through the care of John of Salisbury, Aquinas, and others, to take its place as a concept of great importance and as part of the language of nascent national awareness in the late medieval world. John of Salisbury had several times stressed that the oath was what distinguished soldiers from assassins20. As he announces, it is his ‘entencion de declairer et magnifester les haultes vertus, les grans triumphes, la loyauté et le grant courage des gens de guerre, quant ilz sont bons, avecques les plaisirs, loenges, honneurs et bonne renommée qu’ilz acquièrent en exerçant les armes’23. This done, is there not a risk that he will be used to create an untrammelled royal authority? 51 E. Deschamps, op. Borrow it Toggle Dropdown Albert D. Cohen Management Library; Architecture/Fine Arts Library; Archives and Special Collections; Bibliothèque Alfred-Monnin (Université de Saint-Boniface) It was thus notable that it should have been the king who decided to place Jouvencel in command of his army, on which occasion the hero thanked his sovereign with the words ‘Sire, je vous remercie très humblement de l’honneur qu’il vous plaist me faire… je y feray le mieulx que je pourray et y serviray vous et eux à mon povoir’48. C. T. Allmand, pp. The preamble refers to the need for reform, ‘pour obvier & donner remede à faire cesser les grands excez & pilleries faites & commises par les Gens de guerre, qui par longtemps ont vescu & vivent sur le peuple sans ordre de Justice’55. As Jean Juvénal des Ursins was to express it in Verba mea (probably c. 1452), on the matter ‘de quelz gens vous vous devez servir en armes, il n’est doubte que on se doit servir de toutes gens dont on se peut aider et qui sont tenus et reputes vaillans’40, while in emphasising that suitability based on experience, rather than on rank or birth, should be the deciding factor in the choice of leaders, he was stressing that an army existed to achieve results, in particular the defence of the public good. In classical works, military effort, whether that of the soldier or of the public-conscious civilian, is aimed at some good, the greatest good being the public good. 33-34 (VI, xiii)). 93-94. Here, as in other texts taken from the same suit, is a clear assertion that not only was the soldier the guardian of the public good, in an ideal and moral sense, but, as the recipient of wages taken from public money, he had an obligation to fulfil his indenture by serving out his term. library.info@utoronto.ca 27-29. Yet there already existed an ideal of the soldier, and a description of his function and place in society in John of Salisbury’s Policraticus, written in the middle years of the twelfth century. 290, 523. 8 Jean Juvénal des Ursins, Ecrits politiques, éd. L'Angleterre, la France et la guerre (Histoire) (French Edition) series title "Pages actuelles", 1914-1916 [no. 57 Ordonnance., t. V, p. 659 (cl. 13 J. Juvénal des Ursins, op. The ordinance of 1374, as we have seen, was much more explicit, with specific penalties for those who left their units before the appointed time57; it is as well to remember that indentures were regarded as having serious legal, as well as practical, implications for those who entered into them, implications which might be pursued in the courts. 64 E. Ashmole, The institution, laws and ceremonies of the most noble Order of the Garter, London, 1672, pp. In Keen, H. M., Giry-Deloison, C., & Contamine, P. 14I would suggest that, while chivalric in form, such a statement could not have been made such before the middle of the fourteenth century. In a period of war and of direct threat to the patrie from both the English and the Companies, the public good comes to be equated with the concept of the defence of the nation. 16, 20-23 (VI, v, vii, viii). See also Ordonnances, t. III, p. 361; t. V pp. Par Sir Thomas Barclay. The chronicles constantly record military action and, by reading along the lines as well as between them, we get some idea of what those who described events, in particular the events of war, thought of the soldier. I will conclude by suggesting what I see some of these to be. Changing Views of the Soldier in Late Medieval France. In accepting office, the captain assumed part of his sovereign’s obligation to society for the upkeep of order and peace, that state which men called ‘justice’. and ed. Frenchmen had ample opportunity of becoming accustomed to the sight of the soldier, and of hearing about his misdeeds. It was the opposite to the particular good, in the fullest meaning of the phrase. 292, 515, 677. Salisbury was clearly influenced by two important sources: the Old Testament, and the late fourth-century writer, Vegetius, whose ideas are reflected time and again in the Policraticus. Such is the formal obligation of the soldier in the king of France’s army in the final quarter of the fourteenth century. If Jean Juvénal des Ursins does not appear to have been afraid of royal power expressed in the form of an army, others were less happy at this development. Many decades earlier, in his ballades, Eustache Deschamps had been hammering home the refrain that princes had an obligation to defend their subjects and achieve a state of justice within their lands. 68 L’Arbre des Batailles, p. 147; Tree of Battles, p. 156. G. W. Coopland, Liverpool, 1949, pp. cit., t. I, p. 318, citing John, 15: 13. The Libraries are open to serve you, even while our physical collections are unavailable during the COVID crisis. D. Lalande, Genève, 1985, pp. 22 E. Deschamps, op. Towards the end of the ordinance comes what we are looking for: a statement of intention. The text of the ordinance is revealing. Both placed emphasis on the need for societies, of whatever size, to defend themselves. 6It was not long before emotion entered the language used to describe the soldier and his activities. About Par Sir Thomas Barclay. Please try again. cit., t. I, p. 387. All soldiers should return to their homes. 348 sq. Deschamps wrote that the ruler should love good knights, gens d’armes and esquires who would pursue his wars for, as Jean Juvénal des Ursins was to express it half a century later, the army represented ‘la force du roy’ by which the king should be served30. 392-394. Angleterre et France; fraternité en guerre, alliance dans la paix. The first clause of the ordinance of that year reiterated that none should claim to exercise military authority without the approval of the king47. C. T. Allmand, pp. 179-181; The Register of Thomas Bekynton, bishop of Bath and Wells, 1443-1465, ed. Vous allez être redirigé vers OpenEdition Search. Avant propos de Gabriel Handaux. Soldiers, the text tells us, exist to serve ‘pour nostre service [et la] deffense, bien et seurté de leurs pays’21. Et chacun dit de lui en derriere: ‘Ha! cit., t. II, p. 236. C. T. Allmand and C. A. J. Armstrong, Camden Society, fourth series, t. XXVI, Royal Historical Society, London, 1982, p. 78. accessibility problem. The reforming ordinance of April 1351 had specified that men-at-arms should swear not to leave their captains’companies, nor to place themselves under the command of others, without permission. ‘Que c’est la chose publique, dont le roy est tout le chef?’, asked Jean Juvénal des Ursins. All that the soldier took, in the way of food for example, was to be paid for, while damage to private property was to be compensated for and those held responsible for such destruction were to be sought out. L'Angleterre, la France et la guerre (Histoire) (French Edition) [DU HAMEL-V] on Amazon.com. Jean Juvénal des Ursins followed the same path. 130 St. George St.,Toronto, ON, M5S 1A5 cit., t. V, pp. OpenEdition est un portail de ressources électroniques en sciences humaines et sociales. 20 Policraticus, t. II, pp. 47 Ordonnances, t. XIII, p. 306 (cl. However, if this were done for the ‘utilité publique’, their sin would soon be forgiven43. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Translated in Society at War, ed. In spite of arguing that the soldier was the flail of God, Bouvet had shown himself to be the strong upholder of the rights and interests of the poor labourer who should be left in peace17, a view with which Alain Chartier and Jean Juvénal des Ursins, to name but two, were later to concur. Please try again. 32-34, printed in Society at War, ed. Much of what follows arises from a consideration of the views expressed in their writings. The close link between service to the king and service to the public good is now making an appearance: from now onwards, the theme of the soldier as a royal servant or agent is a fairly consistent one29. 40 J. Juvénal des Ursins, op. 25It is far too easy to conjure up a picture of the late medieval soldier as the terror of the countryside, a vagabond in society, a man driven by greed, ambition and, sometimes, necessity, to tyrannize the defenceless people of France. Such views were in keeping with those expressed by Bouvet twenty years earlier. It was to that good, the good whose guardian the soldier was intended to be, that the texts referred with increasing frequency. Undisciplined soldiers were making life a misery for the population; they were attacking the ‘transquilité’ of the civilian and were becoming objects of fear, a fact confirmed by Jean de Venette’s chronicle. Angleterre et France; fraternité en guerre, alliance dans la paix. Borrow it Toggle Dropdown Albert D. Cohen Management Library; Architecture/Fine Arts Library; Archives and Special Collections; Bibliothèque Alfred-Monnin (Université de Saint-Boniface) 128-130; Tree of Battles, pp. ALLMAND, Christopher T. Changing Views of the Soldier in Late Medieval France In : Guerre et société en France, en Angleterre et en Bourgogne xiv e-xv e siècle [en ligne]. 235-236. Tradition et nouveauté», in Comptes rendus de l’Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres, 1979, pp. ; et CONTAMINE, Philippe (dir.). Contamine, «L’idée de guerre à la fin du moyen âge: aspects juridiques et éthiques», in Comptes rendus de l’Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres, 1979, pp. The soldier, need we remind ourselves, is seen as the defender of that concept. What would happen, he asked, if a soldier, hired to serve for a year, left before that term was up? In future all captains, who must be chosen by the king, shall be responsible for the discipline of their soldiers whose misdeeds they shall have the right to judge, so that any action against civilians shall be punished as treason, and property, livestock, and agricultural produce shall be properly protected. LA GUERRE FATALE FRANCE-ANGLETERRE, TOME I, A BIZERTE. 185-186. 9Such a view has a place in the present discussion. 132-133. Au jour d’hui veult chascun guerre mener’, he wrote; soldiers destroy their country through pillage; all honour is gone. 18, 29-30. Many, too, had arrived at the battle dressed in the clothing of vanity rather than in that of war, a criticism similar in character to remarks made at much the same time by the English Dominican, John Bromyard, about some of his fellow-countrymen departing for war in France3. The soldier’s task is to expel the country’s exterior enemies and, by controlling its native ones, to establish the king’s peace within the kingdom. An English translation is in Society at War. 73 P. D. Solon, art. 53 J. Juvénal des Ursins, op. 22The captain, appointed by the crown, thus became both the king’s representative and one of his leaders of men. Certainly, by 1361 (as we have seen) the assembling of gens d’armes was forbidden other than by express royal order; if this were not done, the kingdom would suffer ‘publiquement’28. As Jules Quicherat pointed out, it was this ordinance which helped to put an end to the French career of Rodrigue de Villandrando, who saw no future for the ‘independent’ commander in France. The first was his birth, ‘la grace de naistre de maison noble’; the second (and perhaps the more important) was his ‘sens et entendement et personnaige pour porter les armes, et de povoir conduire voz faiz en si grant honneur et si grant renommée que la louenge en va jusques à Dieu’49. War, far from being an evil, was a way of righting wrong, of turning dissension to peace, a medicine used to restore health to the human body. 10 E. Deschamps, op. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for La guerre fatale, France-Angleterre at the best online prices at eBay! P.D. De Queux de SaintHilaire and G. Raynaud, SATF, Paris, 1878-1903, t. I, pp. This, Bueil believed, was accomplishing the will of God. That was the message passed on from classical times, a message eagerly taken up at this moment when the role of the soldier and of the army in society was evolving so rapidly. Jean de Bueil, as we know, was not the only writer of this age to criticise those who went to court in search of advancement; they were among those who already had their rewards. (Eds.). 19What was happening was that the soldier, in particular, was coming to be regarded as the guardian of the public good, the instrument available to the king to defend the country from exterior attack, to expel enemies (such as the English) who might be in possession of part of it, and to maintain peace within it. It was this point which some contemporaries found worrying. In the ordinance of 1374 such a claim was to be exercised45; by that date the appointment of Bertrand du Guesclin as Constable, in a scene rendered famous by Froissart, had already taken place46. 1). 26Service in war, then, was honourable, for it placed the soldier at risk. Many, on that occasion, had lacked the courage to fight and had fled, to their great dishonour. Armies now became necessary both for defence and for securing justice. For him (it is significant that he cited both Vegetius and Valerius Maximus in this context) the ability to lead effectively grew mainly out of practical experience, and for that reason he preferred those ‘experimentez en fait de guerres’ to those younger men who lacked that experience53. In the suit in which Thomas Overton and Sir John Fastolf confronted each other before the Parlement of Paris between 1432 and 1435, Fastolf did his best to besmirch the reputation of his former receiver by accusing him of misappropriation of public funds, ‘la peccune publique dont on devoit paier les souldoiers du roy’60. 158-165 (‘Of the Alms-Knights’). In such conditions justice could not reign, and strong action was required against them, so that the king’s ‘bons et loyaulx subgiets’ should be adequately protected. Significantly, Jean de Venette has a story in which the dog (the soldier) is placed to guard animals (the French people), but when the wolf (the English) arrives, the dog joins him, and together they attack the now defenceless animals72. In brief, the task of the writers who will be cited in this paper was to create an intellectual climate for major reform of the army by the crown which, if properly organized, could lead to both the expulsion of the ancient enemy and the imposition and subsequent maintenance of that order in society which, as Frenchmen were coming to appreciate, it was the monarchy’s obligation to impose and maintain. 12The reading of certain kinds of evidence leads to the conclusion that the soldier in late medieval France was the direct cause of much suffering in society. Solon, art. University of Toronto We are here witnesses to an attempt to make terms of service, set out in the indenture, morally and legally binding; if this could be done, the effectiveness of the army would be considerably increased. 5The behaviour of an army on the battlefield in time of open hostilities was one matter; how the soldier acted off the field of battle was another. Such had betrayed their king, Jean II: ‘Fauls, traitres, desloyaus, sont infame et parjureCar par euls est le roi mis à desconfiture,Qui est li très plus nobles de toute creature.’. C. T. Allmand, pp. 28What the soldier looks like to his contemporaries has an intrinsic interest of its own, whatever age or epoch is being considered. The acceptance of that will, even in a true spirit of Christian patience and resignation, would incline men towards the spirit of fatalism clearly evident to us in much of the literature of the time. Royal ordinances have much to say on him from the viewpoint of royal government and administration. Those who wrote on military matters in France at this time show evidence of having grasped one of the principal messages which these, and other classical writers, had to convey, namely the common obligation to defend the res publica. Avant propos de Gabriel Handaux. Finally, the influence of Aristotelian thought on the concept of individual, self-sufficient societies, with their own characteristics and interests to be defended legitimately if threatened from outside, became one of the factors which not only influenced the development of national armies but also, by stressing the obligation of the subject or the citizen to play his part in national defence, enhanced the position of and respect due to the soldier in society. In this matter the ideals of chivalry were influential. 7Deschamps wrote these words probably in 1369. Lille : Publications de l’Institut de recherches historiques du Septentrion, 1991 (généré le 14 avril 2020). 98-99; Ibid., pp. Yet even in this form there was a clear indication that what was being sought was the avoidance of desertion. Allmand, C. T. 1991. une belle conqueste et ung service au Roy, nostre souverain seigneur, et pourra ceste chose estre bien prouffitable à la chose publicque de ce royaume’42. The praise which Deschamps lavished upon Bertrand du Guesclin and Louis de Sancerre, both Constables of France, both buried besides their sovereign lords at Saint-Denis, had much of the traditional chivalric praise of the knight behind it22. 320-321; J. Juvénal des Ursins, op. When Venette wrote about the burning of his native village by the English, he described a man’s natural reaction to an event which, as he recalled, was being repeated elsewhere6. That is one of the characteristics of his work, to which he referred more than once. A new view of the soldier and of his social functions was now being made more explicit. ‘Mais, au regard de l’homme d’armes, il est tout au contraire. 14 L’Arbre des Batailles, p. 150; Tree of Battles, p. 158. Following Vegetius, John of Salisbury had shown the need for the selection of suitable officers50. If the lawyer defended people with words, the soldier’s task was to do the same with arms1. Car, s’il a esté bon, chascun le plaint et l’invite-l’en à disner et à soupper, et lui tenir compaignie. Stress is also placed on other factors. There was a problem loading your book clubs. Ch. Published by Ernest Flammarion Non daté. It was these abuses of power which made soldiers into the latrones publici of the public imagination. Top subscription boxes – right to your door, © 1996-2020, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. 27 Ordonnances, t. IV, pp. This time it was the captains, appointed to office by the king, who were made responsible for the discipline of those under their command. He might choose to ignore the peace which his lord, the king, had made with the English. 30The soldier has been responsible for restoring the king’s peace. 66-67, 144-145; Le Jouvencel, t. I, p. 118. Still have questions? As Bouvet would not condemn war on the grounds that some abused it, so we should not judge all soldiers by the worst of them. The grant of the comté of Clermont made to John, Lord Talbot, by Henry VI on 24 August 1434 specifically stated that it was in recognition of ‘la recouvrance et conservacion de noz couronne et seigneurie de France, pour la deffense desquelles il a tousjours honnorablement exposé sa personne et sa chevance, et esté prisonnier longuement de noz ennemis et adversaires’70. H. C. Maxwell-Lyte and M. C. B. Dawes, Somerset Record Society, t. XLIX (1934-1935), I, p. 155; The episcopal register of Robert Rede, ordinis predicatorum, lord bishop of Chichester, 1397-1415, ed. 4Such men ‘Ont tray leur segneur à qui devoient foy’, with the result that victory went to the English ‘merdaille’4. When discussing the lawfulness of fighting on a feast day, Honoré Bouvet stressed that the soldiers of his day would be condemned if they rode out, scaled a town, or pillaged or robbed on Easter Day for their advantage. 15a spirit of co-operation which, in the works of Chartier, contrasted with his view of the nobility whose attitude to service under the crown, and under leaders appointed by the crown, he was all too ready to criticise. However, this kind of motivation is not sufficient. © Publications de l’Institut de recherches historiques du Septentrion, 1991, Conditions d’utilisation : http://www.openedition.org/6540. were to be recorded. By 1439, however, the importance of this matter needed to be re-emphasised. In October 1361, as acts of private war appeared to replace war against the English which the treaty of Brétigny had brought to a temporary halt, the soldiers who sought to further their own ends in this way were ordered home, and were forbidden to assemble again without royal permission19. As writers on the subject have reminded us, chivalry had always inculcated a certain duty to the state39. John of Salisbury cited several examples of the punishments meted out to deserters (Policraticus, t. II, pp. 80 sq, 107-109. R. Birdsall and R. A. Newhall, New York, 1953, pp. 20-22. Bring your club to Amazon Book Clubs, start a new book club and invite your friends to join, or find a club that’s right for you for free. I have already mentioned the names of Roman writers such as Frontinus, Vegetius, and Valerius Maximus. Eustache Deschamps was to echo those feelings. 30 E. Deschamps, op. Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations, Select the department you want to search in, + No Import Fees Deposit & $9.98 Shipping to Canada. If Bueil, a layman, could write in this way, the idea was an even more natural part of a clerical mentality. E. Nys, Brussels and Leipzig, 1883, p. 150; The Tree of Battles of Honoré Bonet, trans. 157-158. 241-242. C. T. Allmand and C. A. J. Armstrong, p. 175. ‘La chose publique est la chose du peuple, du pays et commune; et est la chose publique saulve quant tous sont unis en bonne amour et dilection, et que chascun pense au proffit et utilité et entende, et est constituee de personnes souveraines, moyennes, et basses, et le souverain et le chef c’est le roy’41. So, too, had Roman law; while the study of classical exempla found, for instance, in the works of Frontinus and Valerius Maximus (both available in French versions) emphasised the Roman tradition of service to the res publica. 29 Wright, NAR, «The Tree of Battles of Honoré Bouvet and the laws of war», War, Literature and Politics in the Late Middle Ages, ed. 257-263, lines 66-68, 84. Webb, Oxford,1909, t. II, p. 2 (VI, i), cited hereafter as Policraticus; Jean de Bueil, Le Jouvencel…, éd. 67-70. . John of Salisbury had stated that, on retirement, the soldier, who must never be in want, should be provided for from public funds63. In January 1374, war with England having in the meantime resumed, further measures to control the soldier were deemed necessary. When he was appointed royal lieutenant at Crathor, Jouvencel owed his nomination to two factors. In the reforming ordinance of 1351 it is stated explicitly that soldiers shall constitute only royal armies and thus, by extension, that they are in the service of the crown27. 46 J. Froissart, Chroniques, éd. 66 Hoccleve’s Works: III. 67 J. Juvénal des Ursins, op. It was now his duty to control the men under his command so that through him the king could be seen to be keeping his house, namely his kingdom, in peace. web accessibility. 65 Le livre des fais du bon messire Jean le Maingre, dit Bouciquaut, mareschal de France et gouverneur de Jeunes, éd. J. C. Laidlaw, Cambridge, 1974, p. 428. Keen, H. Maurice, et al.. 58 L’Arbre des Batailles, pp. C. T. Allmand, p. 47. Obligation to serve in the army, in the arrière-ban, for example, could be turned into a virtue. That this was in contrast with more traditional English practice is made clear by Anne Curry, «The first English standing army? Please check the HathiTrust Emergency Temporary Access Service (ETAS) for your item. Condition: bon Hardcover de Beaurepaire, B.E.C., 3e série, t. II (1851), pp. 39 R. L. Kilgour, The decline of Chivalry, as shown in the French literature of the late middle ages, Cambridge, Mass., 1937, p. 214; Μ. H. Keen, Chivalry, Yale, 1984, pp. 82-83. While the fulfilment of such aims was still the principal raison d’être for the existence of the nobility and the justification for the privileges which it enjoyed (so much, I think, may be read into the Complainte of 1357 and even the views of Alain Chartier in the next century), there can be little doubt that, influenced by humanistic thinking and the ideas of Vegetius, the fulfilment of defensive needs was now, more than ever before, coming to be regarded as a matter of communal responsibility. 1991. 56 Ibid., t. IV, pp. Nor did Mathieu d’Escouchy who, reporting that the people thanked God for the peace which the army had brought to the country, argued that the permanent army was not large enough to overawe the population74. In Alain Chartier’s Débat du Herault the vassal is made to say: ‘Dea, se mon prince me mande,Il fault que je l’aille servirEt aille soubz qui il commendeEn moy n’en est pas lez choysir’31. 3 John Bromyard, Summa Predicantium, Basel, 1484, under ‘Bellum’. The ordinance shows a clear appreciation that matters have now gone too far, and a growing understanding that the role of the soldier in society can be fulfilled only if, under the lead of the king and his captains, he is brought to recognize his proper function as a guardian of society. 141-145 (Sancerre). 254-255. It also analyzes reviews to verify trustworthiness. In his Débat du Herault, Alain Chartier took the matter one step further by stating that the soldier had an obligation to serve under whatever captain the king gave him61, this being an expression of the reformist idea, now being gradually accepted in France, that a soldier owed his first loyalty not to his immediate captain but rather to the king and, through him, to the wider public good which provided him with his wages62. Whereas France, Italy and Spain established state controlled armies, efficiently run and of high military calibre, the English continued to maintain a ‘medieval’ system which proved inadequate for the demands of ‘modern’ warfare’. Both Jean le Maingre and Jean de Bueil were to ask that provision be made for old soldiers who had done good service: as Jouvencel put it, ‘ilz sont vielz et anciens; ilz vous ont bien servi… Je vous pri et supplie qu’il vous plaise leur donner estat de quoy ilz vivent honnourablement le surplus de leurs jours; car je ne vouldroye pas avoir tous les biens de ce monde, par ainsi que aprez moi ilz demourassent en neccessité’65.

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